40k Is There a Way to Withdraw From Combat and Then Charge Again
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2017/07/17 fifteen:nineteen:19
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
Question in the title.
Maybe this is just venting, but just like I expected, I am getting quite frustrated past the fall dorsum rules.
When I outset heard almost it, I thought that perhaps information technology would be balanced out by the ability to pile in/consolidate into a 2nd unit of measurement, and that the unit that barbarous back couldn't shoot (though the entire rest of the army could).
But now, more and more than and more stuff is getting to fall back without whatsoever real penalty. Half the tau codex (units that fly). More than half the eldar codex (the same). Potentially, the Entire guard codex (infantry units & get back in the fight orders). And now,
allultramarines
base, with a measly -1 to hitting modifier. And mork knows what else in the future.
And, honestly, I'm not entirely against the autumn back mechanic existing. I get that non everyone has proper orky values, and a tau thespian may not want to continue his lonely fire warrior tied in close combat with meganobz.
Just it just seems to me that fall back should be a concluding resort, not your go-to strategy, and should come with some major penalties that a ton of units don't outright ignore. Something similar on a 6+, you lot lose a model from the unit of measurement that fell back, or the unit that you're running from gets another consolidate move/fight phase, or both? Or something? I merely hate that everything gets to only waltz out of combat without even being challenged.
I mean, this is getting ridiculous. Between comprehend not benefiting my army at ALL, and the fact I tin never keep anyone tied in close gainsay, my reward for playing is for my opponent to be shot at across the table, shot at in overwatch, them to fall dorsum, shoot me without penalisation, and shoot me again when I charge, until I'm dead. My simply recourse is to spam the absolute piss out of wierdboyz with the bound, only that just skips the first function.
And aye, if yous completely envelop your enemy they cannot fall dorsum. I've encounter this occur exactly once so far. It'south non that easy to accomplish, at least and then far. It'south not virtually plenty to counter the headache that is falling back (and is 100% useless v. units that can fly).
This bulletin was edited one time. Concluding update was at 2017/07/17 xv:19:58
"Hope is the starting time footstep on the route to disappointment." Words to alive past.
2017/07/17 15:41:01
Bailiwick: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Lethal Lhamean
Birmingham
No.
2017/07/17 15:42:12
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall dorsum rules?
Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
As an IG player I can tell you that
* Infantry is a meat shield to cake your melee units from getting to my tanks and arms
* when my infantry falls back, I accept to get out of melee range. On an open field? sure, no problem - just if those guardsmen are with their backs against my arms, that'due south an issue.
* Simply my infantry tin get dorsum in the fight and shoot after falling back. My tanks and arms volition exist useless one time yous've broken through.
* fifty-fifty for infantry falling back has information technology's downside - I cant guild them to do annihilation else , eg reroll 1s toHit.
Take you actually played against any of the armies yous're complaining nearly yet? I'm asking because as an IG player it'south not easy to go along y'all off of my guys. I've got no clue what'due south adept in your index, but I know yous accept transports, I know y'all take bikes and I know that you have stuff that tin deepstrike. It'south just no longer the example that one time you're within charge range you just tear my guard apart without whatever opposition.
This message was edited one time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 15:42:57
2017/07/17 fifteen:50:19
Bailiwick: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
I played an IG thespian who spammed like 300 models, and it was honestly a pretty miserable feel.
In addition to beingness an absurdly long and boring game, the exact issues I mentioned were a problem. I charged. They overwatched. They fell back. They shot without penalty. Repeat.
Hell, even artillery and vehicles is a pain. I charge it, they're unbelievably resilient, and I become locked in a loop where the vehicle falls back, their entire regular army shoots me, and I accuse it again, and information technology overwatches again. My starting time game of 8th it took a unit of 20 boyz 3 separate charges to Not kill a wyvern.
And as for 'ripping apart', IG units, he was able to form so in blocks, and between that and barely making a 9" charge, I was able to get like one-half my boyz into effective range. I killed mayhap a dozen conscripts, out of 50. They fell back, etc, etc.
Ditto for eldar. I charge their vehicles. They overwatch. They fall back without penalty. They shoot. Echo. Same thing for their bound MCs, warp spyders, even played a game five. a revenant titan with 6D6 auto hitting shots at range and in overwatch. That wasn't much fun.
Admittedly, I haven't played tau, merely I know for firsthand fact it's not fun when facing IG and eldar, and I tin can extrapolate.
This message was edited 2 times. Terminal update was at 2017/07/17 15:51:48
"Hope is the first step on the route to disappointment." Words to live by.
2017/07/17 15:52:48
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Khorne Veteran Marine with Concatenation-Axe
Space Wolves melee army, im frustrated about it. I become shot to peices quite brutally.
So i figured, lets celebrate 8th editions "love for shut combat" past getting myself a tank division for my space wolves. Well played GW, more money in your pocket.
This message was edited 1 time. Terminal update was at 2017/07/17 xv:53:xx
6000 World Eaters/Khorne
2017/07/17 fifteen:58:14
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall back rules?
Fireknife Shas'el
How is this much dissimilar from a CC unit charging in and wiping out a unit of measurement? Dedicated CC troops by and large evaporate the stuff they charge to the point of uselessness. Two or 3 guardsmen falling dorsum isn't worth giving an club to shoot if at that place's any other unit nearby to give that order.
What's really stupid? A lone Terminator charging a unit and hiding from shooting for 2-three turns, grinding the unit to a fine paste because they can't run abroad. I'chiliad glad that's over with.
2017/07/17 16:01:42
Subject field: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall dorsum rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
John Prins wrote:
How is this much different from a CC unit charging in and wiping out a unit? Dedicated CC troops generally evaporate the stuff they accuse to the bespeak of uselessness. Two or three guardsmen falling dorsum isn't worth giving an order to shoot if in that location's any other unit of measurement nearby to give that lodge.What's actually stupid? A solitary Terminator charging a unit and hiding from shooting for two-three turns, grinding the unit to a fine paste considering they tin can't run away. I'grand glad that's over with.
LIke I said in my OP, I go it from the other end, and I'grand ok with falling back existing in some capacity, but being able to do it unchallenged, and having a ton of units that outright ignore its penalties, is starting to become frustrating to me.
"Hope is the commencement pace on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
2017/07/17 16:04:50
Subject field: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Decrepit Dakkanaut
I don't understand the effect. When you charge yous're killing stuff, so whhats left over isn't going to contribute much. I can peradventure meet why someone might be annoyed, merely it isn't a large deal.
CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it'south considering the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Homo, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to utilise their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending handling that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/07/17 16:08:18
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
The issue that my reward for making a successful charge is to immediately be blasted to pieces by the entire enemy army at indicate blank range, oftentimes times past the remainder of the unit of measurement that I had charged and fled from gainsay without challenge or penalisation.
"Hope is the first step on the road to thwarting." Words to alive past.
2017/07/17 16:09:48
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Kap'n Krump wrote:
How is this much different from a CC unit charging in and wiping out a unit? Dedicated CC troops generally evaporate the stuff they charge to the point of uselessness. 2 or three guardsmen falling back isn't worth giving an club to shoot if there's any other unit nearby to give that order.What's really stupid? A lone Terminator charging a unit and hiding from shooting for 2-iii turns, grinding the unit to a fine paste because they tin can't run abroad. I'm glad that'south over with.
Like I said in my OP, I get it from the other terminate, and I'yard ok with falling back existing in some capacity, but being able to do it unchallenged, and having a ton of units that outright ignore its penalties, is starting to become frustrating to me.
In that location'south a little as well much of GW'southward one-time all-or-nothing attitude showing through here; it'south besides piece of cake to go out of gainsay and still shoot ordinarily for a lot of units, but it's also as well easy to get top-of-turn-ane charges that your opponent tin't practice squat almost for a lot of units (Deep Strike, Daemon Princes, Heldrakes...). I don't recollect outright ignoring the penalties is the answer but if y'all stack on too many penalties you risk making a huge chunk of the game unplayable in the face up of the turn-one aggro-melee-blitz.
2017/07/17 sixteen:21:43
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Fireknife Shas'el
Getting an IG player to waste product orders on depleted units is a win. The trouble you had was that Conscripts are unbalanced cheese at the moment. IG induct spam is a known issue.
Forcing a tank to fall back and non be able to shoot is a win.
I tin run into Jet bikes beingness a PITA, but they've always been cheese, they're just slightly less cheesy this edition.
Crisis Suits are expensive as heck (50-lxxx points a pop), so I don't think information technology's unfair for them to autumn back and shoot.
2017/07/17 17:04:43
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
And, to be fair, fifty-fifty though I said one-half the eldar and tau codex ignore fall back penalties due to fly, information technology honestly seems fair enough. If you're fast or can fly, it makes sense to quit a fight y'all don't want to be a part of.
But even the quondam hit & run rules had a chance to fail, even for things similar warp spyders.
I think I'd be happy if falling back was some kind of characteristic or movement test, buffed if you lot tin can fly. But I think it'due south just impaired for guardsmen to just only walk abroad from a horde of ork boyz unchallenged and get to shoot normally.
"Hope is the beginning step on the route to thwarting." Words to alive past.
2017/07/17 17:06:22
Discipline: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall back rules?
Norn Queen
Fall dorsum needs to go dorsum to a sweeping accelerate arrangement. Roll off, +1 if y'all have more motility than the enemy, +1 if y'all take FLY
Brand Wyches have a +i on pinnacle of that.
This message was edited one time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 17:06:34
2017/07/17 17:06:52
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Clousseau
I played an IG player who spammed like 300 models, and it was honestly a pretty miserable experience.In addition to being an absurdly long and tedious game, the exact problems I mentioned were a trouble. I charged. They overwatched. They fell back. They shot without penalty. Repeat.
Hell, even arms and vehicles is a pain. I charge information technology, they're unbelievably resilient, and I get locked in a loop where the vehicle falls back, their unabridged army shoots me, and I charge it again, and it overwatches again. My first game of 8th information technology took a unit of measurement of xx boyz 3 divide charges to Non kill a wyvern.
And every bit for 'ripping autonomously', IG units, he was able to course then in blocks, and between that and barely making a 9" charge, I was able to get similar half my boyz into effective range. I killed maybe a dozen conscripts, out of fifty. They fell dorsum, etc, etc.
Ditto for eldar. I charge their vehicles. They overwatch. They fall back without penalty. They shoot. Repeat. Same thing for their jump MCs, warp spyders, even played a game v. a revenant titan with 6D6 motorcar hit shots at range and in overwatch. That wasn't much fun.
Admittedly, I haven't played tau, only I know for firsthand fact it's not fun when facing IG and eldar, and I tin can extrapolate.
Don't apply conscripts as your estimate for 40k new rules, they're overpowered right at present. AM in general is undercosted and simply crapping all over people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Getting an IG player to waste orders on depleted units is a win. The problem yous had was that Conscripts are unbalanced cheese at the moment. IG conscript spam is a known issue.
exactly
This message was edited 1 time. Concluding update was at 2017/07/17 17:07:32
Bharring wrote:
Galas wrote:
I retrieve when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed yous 
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended data. Heretic.
2017/07/17 17:38:37
Bailiwick: Anyone getting frustrated past the autumn back rules?
Dakka Veteran
AnomanderRake wrote:
How is this much different from a CC unit charging in and wiping out a unit? Defended CC troops generally evaporate the stuff they charge to the point of uselessness. Ii or iii guardsmen falling back isn't worth giving an society to shoot if there'due south any other unit nearby to give that order.What's really stupid? A solitary Terminator charging a unit and hiding from shooting for 2-3 turns, grinding the unit of measurement to a fine paste because they tin can't run away. I'grand glad that'due south over with.
Similar I said in my OP, I get it from the other finish, and I'grand ok with falling dorsum existing in some capacity, merely being able to practice it unchallenged, and having a ton of units that outright ignore its penalties, is starting to go frustrating to me.
At that place's a little too much of GW's old all-or-nothing attitude showing through here; it's too piece of cake to leave of combat and notwithstanding shoot unremarkably for a lot of units, but it's too too easy to get elevation-of-plough-ane charges that your opponent can't do squat about for a lot of units (Deep Strike, Daemon Princes, Heldrakes...). I don't call back outright ignoring the penalties is the answer but if you stack on also many penalties you risk making a huge chunk of the game unplayable in the face of the plow-i aggro-melee-blitz.
I disagree. Yous still need to roll a 9 on 2d6, under optimal conditions to start plow accuse. And then, ane/3rd chance nether best circumstances, 2/3rd hazard to fail and be expensive cannon fodder.
They really should require some sort of roll to fall back and you lose one guy for every 6+ or something like that. That way it'south an actual sacrifice and punishes you for bad positioning instead of punishing melee armies for making it across the field and making that gakky random charge roll.
This message was edited iii times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 17:43:14
2017/07/17 17:39:21
Subject: Re:Anyone getting frustrated by the fall dorsum rules?
Longtime Dakkanaut
I hear you, and yeah, this edition is different.
Delight remember the game is designed to be a tactical game of strategic maneuvering and match ups. It can be played equally a game of I identify my models, move forward equally fast as they can and accuse, but that is not its blueprint. 40k is chess, no checkers, and a large part of this is in ownership your ground forces. You will lose to the guy who buys, places, and moves to maximize his if all you do is charge the bulk of his army.
This edition supports lots of models on the tabular array, and damage absorption by units.
This is the constant state of war betwixt balance and play-power. On 1 side, the plough 1 charge melee army is absolutely doable for most codices. So if they tin get in combat and exist immune, the game is really a half turn game of who goes kickoff (one of the earlier editions this was basically the instance, and games lasted 2 turns at virtually) We do not want that back.
At present, please keep in listen the balance of the game is on points, meaning, does a unit of thirty orc boyz charge in and impale its equivalent in points before getting zapped dead. That is e'er your goal as a actor: Make your points dorsum. If you expect ane unit of measurement of boyz to get on a binge and wipe out 1k of enemy, you are request too much.
Conscripts ARE a bad instance right now, because of the commissar rule.
Otherwise, you mentioned half your boyz reach combat...well that is 45 and perchance more attacks. Without the commissar, that's a dead unit of conscripts( say 14 orcs made it with a banner waver guy (56 attacks, 37 hits, 15 wounds, 15 dead models, 14 removed by morale ( no orc codex so might be slightly off on the 4 attacks each...and I am ignoring any impairment from pistols, aye I know, orcs...but that is nevertheless a few)) which means he would take shot yous with the rest of his army anyway...then the consequence hither isn't the fall dorsum move...information technology is the ignore morale move.
Example of apply in a game. My friend runs a horde orc regular army, where he comes in three waves, the start of 60 boyz (2 units of xxx), the second 2 of 30. The first get shot to zero (just still remain because of mob dominion). The 2nd tends to striking at well-nigh full force. And the tertiary piles in 1 turn later almost untouched. That is two turns of 100+ CC attacks confronting as many units as he tin can touch. And the cost for all those boyz is 1/iii of his ground forces. So CC tin work even with the fall back.
The bottom line is, the balance point in this game right now is that CC units get to charge ane unit, wipe them out, and and so the game goes on. If I take to terminate off that unit on my turn, then other units are being ignored to do their purpose. If your CC units are not making their points up at all, so rethink how you use them, how you lot buy them, etc.
I run a guard CC ground forces, and generally practice fine with information technology.
The ground forces I come across suffering the nigh from this is the expensive, elite type armies who simply cannot get the bodies on the table to blot shooting. When my vanguard vets accuse, few things survive. then they become shot, yes...but if I wiped out my points and more, I won...
My seraphim never survive CC to fall back...
Get you lot CC units lined upwardly against a portion of his army. Force him to separate his burn down up away from them. Don't get frustrated, get meliorate, adapt, change, you will feel so much better when his tactics suddenly prove the weaker. I've been stomped in games myself...
Rethink that nine+...there are far too many means to re-roll dice now. And then 9" charges have become far more than feasible. At that place are multiple threads doing the numbers, Anything close to 50% chance is a big deal, and this doesn't count a lot of watch moves. For example, scout sentinels can easily appoint in CC turn one...if my opponent has to spend his first turn falling back with iii-iv units and shooting those sentinels. I have already won that game. I dont care what the impairment they did was.
This bulletin was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 17:45:51
Keeping the hobby side alive! I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage.
2017/07/17 17:42:48
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall back rules?
Flailing Flagellant
Colorado, USA
+ane (with the exception of vehicles where I think being able to lock them in CC is just impaired).
Admin - Bugman'due south Brewery "Every homo is guilty of all the good he didn't do." - Voltaire
"Stand up for what y'all believe in, even if it means standing lonely." - Unknown
2017/07/17 17:57:thirty
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Norn Queen
silashand wrote:
+i (with the exception of vehicles where I think being able to lock them in CC is just dumb).
"Oh noes, grots. Nosotros are totally incapable of running over them." - Baneblade Commander
2017/07/17 xviii:02:eleven
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Betwixt Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left
*raises hand*
If ultramarines, a fairly generic chapter, are getting this power, then information technology would non surprise me that every bit more codex come out we'll see similar abilities be more than prevalent until pretty much every non-pure assault army has admission to it. People go up over artillery almost turn i assault units and assault unit 'wiping units out" merely how much overlap is there of that? Kommandoes infiltrating is for tying down back units and if they can't do that I might besides but saying they're choppa boyz to salvage points.
2017/07/17 18:04:22
Discipline: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Norn Queen
Luke_Prowler wrote:
*raises hand*If ultramarines, a fairly generic chapter, are getting this power, then it would not surprise me that as more codex come out we'll run into like abilities be more prevalent until pretty much every not-pure assault army has access to it. People get up over artillery almost turn i set on units and assail unit 'wiping units out" only how much overlap is there of that? Kommandoes infiltrating is for tying down back units and if they tin't practice that I might as well but saying they're choppa boyz to save points.
You need to environs enemies to trap them now. which is abrasive,
2017/07/17 18:24:51
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Krazed Killa Kan
*raises hand*If ultramarines, a adequately generic chapter, are getting this ability, .
It has been confirmed that ultramarines are getting the chapter tactic that they fall back and but suffer -1 penalty to shoot. Tin't assault (I think).
This message was edited one fourth dimension. Last update was at 2017/07/17 18:28:23
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
2017/07/17 18:25:35
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn dorsum rules?
Fresh-Faced New User
I'1000 rather amused past your annoyance at so many Tau units having Fly. Would you rather go dorsum to 7th edition where their JSJ meant that y'all couldn't even assault them in the first place?
You've also fallen into the trap of bold that the battles we're simulating hither actually take place in a series of turns. Being able to autumn back, and melee units chasing them downwards and charging once more and again represents a rolling fight, or a rout. It'south just like a unit that's backpedalling earlier y'all attain accuse range. The only difference is that once y'all're in charge range, they're notwithstanding backpedalling, just this time yous keep getting close enough to krump 'em every now and and so.
2017/07/17 18:29:18
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall dorsum rules?
Longtime Dakkanaut
Equally an ork player I'd say.... no way. I recollect the fall back rules are very counterbalanced and improves the game. Getting charged is no longer a expiry judgement, but on the other hand people tend to get charged a lot more. Combat is much easier to get out of, but it is too much easier to get in to. And the game is much better for it.
In seventh edition shut combat was a capital punishment for shooty units, and that was balanced out by making cc very difficult to go in to, and by making transports blow up by being looked at sternly. I don't miss those times.
The numerous units that can autumn back and shoot, generally pays a price for such a powerful ability. Crunch suits are expensive and frail for example.
A notable exception is conscripts. That fifty conscripts can do good from a single order is overpowered, and conscripts tin can be extremely frustrating to play against. Conscripts needs a nerf (and the Leman russ needs a buff), but that is not really related to the autumn back rule.
2017/07/17 18:48:13
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
I've seen it piece of work out both ways.
I've played several melee vs ranged matchups from both sides, and I've had instances where fall back was super frustrating and resulted in a one-sided game, and where it was totally useless because the whole ground forces was basically stunlocked.
There have likewise been games (such as where I played vs an eldar armored listing) that it really was simply such a constant that I didn't care much near it. I just kind of factored in that the enemy would be shooting to total outcome after my attacks, and I made sure I charged with enough stuff to cripple or impale my targets, while leaving others completely alone.
As to getting across the board, yes it seems orks accept 2 options: Da Jump and just spamming fast stuff. Well, and mek mob. Killa Kanz take proven to be durable as all get out in the games I've played with them. Running a unit of half dozen killa kanz, the worst I've washed before they get to swing in combat is 2 casualties - and then they VERY quickly make their points back, because S8 AP-3 iii damage is no joke (just make sure you bring a waagh banner!)
Of my two major ork playstyles, mek mob with a 30-human distraction bound team has netted me more than success than speed freeks and then far. trukks living through a turn of firepower is a dicy prospect wheras Kanz Nauts and Dreads are harder to carve through. Trukk boyz seem very underwhelming this edition, but my final game a mostly shooty speed freek did smashing.
"Got yous, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines tin can't fall dorsum because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah opinion two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah concluding turn!" "So y'all think, Kaiba! I declared my K Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I volition spend 8 Conduce Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the control phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!" "you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who take gotten you! I declare the always-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!" "...which leads y'all direct into my trap, Kaiba, yous see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks past 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/07/17 19:12:47
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall dorsum rules?
Regular Dakkanaut
My buddy plays ork and Eldar, and I play Admech, Tyranids and Guard (in 8th thus far, I have too many armies to play them all correct at present, besides much to focus on) and I accept never encountered any scenarios like the ones y'all're posting.
Just to be clear, make sure you and your buddy are playing correctly. He only gets to fall back on his turn, after yous have resolved melee the melee phase and information technology switches to his turn. Your orks should be having little to no trouble mopping up Eldar, IG or really anyhting for the matter in close combat. If so, you may have merely been rolling poorly, cause a 30 ork boy squad should be throwing about 120 dice at your charge target.
A couple questions if I may. Are yous using transports? Are yous playing varied game modes? Such as different mission types non merely kill points. Are you and your buddy list tailoring? Take you tried combined arms yet?
My buddy who has been playing orks has had no trouble getting into melee with me after turn 2 and has had no issues with his ork boys, nobz and killa kans nearly wiping any team they get into melee with. Fifty-fifty beating out my Tyranids in melee frequently, (unless I get the charge off or employ a stratagem to interrupt his attacks).
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
Nigh 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Anarchy
Near 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Electric current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
2017/07/17 19:20:15
Field of study: Re:Anyone getting frustrated by the fall dorsum rules?
Fixture of Dakka
It'due south a terrible mechanic as it stands. It should at very minimum tied to a stat and not automated. Every bit others have pointed out, even hit and run could fail.
2017/07/17 nineteen:33:02
Subject area: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall back rules?
Guardsman with Flashlight
Boston
In that location are a few units which can forbid units from falling back in combat then I think we are just not used to minutia from codex yet 
2017/07/17 19:55:20
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the autumn back rules?
Confessor Of Sins
If you're doing attack right you should be having iii-iv units hitting their lines at the same time, piling into several more units.
I use this stuff all the time with just Saint Celestine. A skillful accuse by her tin can finish 3-iv units from shooting side by side plough by herself. The support units of seraphim neuter the opponents shooting for an entire plow.
This bulletin was edited i time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 xix:56:09
2500pts
2500
3000
2017/07/17 20:04:39
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated by the fall back rules?
Regular Dakkanaut
What are the points levels/lists involved in your instance battles, OP?
2017/07/17 20:27:18
Subject: Anyone getting frustrated past the fall back rules?
Martial Arts Fiday
I would like information technology more if it required a Ld check to practise only it's not terrible.
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my optics and inverse my heed near this topic, thanks Dakka OT!" -Nobody Ever Proverbs 18:2 "CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared. GW didn't mean to striking your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't exercise it again so it's ok to buy and brand upwards. Albatross wrote:I retrieve SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero. EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
warboss wrote:
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter!
Source: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733039.page
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